tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4501419294567207665.post8990098610675729488..comments2024-01-01T18:40:30.350-05:00Comments on Ryan Cooper: TED and Economic InequalityRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03810858979281766801noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4501419294567207665.post-23012208564770591162012-05-20T20:18:58.209-04:002012-05-20T20:18:58.209-04:00A link would be nice. In any case I still don'...A link would be nice. In any case I still don't see why we should be looking at levels of spending, given how much more the US is spending on healthcare and education. Rather it makes more sense to me to look at what kind of services that money buys, and I think it's unquestionably true that Sweden's welfare state is stupendously generous compared to the US's.<br /><br />As for your main point, without more study I just don't see what all this extra wealth is buying the society. Save of course for an enormous, tottering financial sector that more resembles a massive tapeworm with every passing moment, and a bloated, extractive healthcare system (and higher education, to a lesser extent).<br /><br />Whether your hypothesis about dollars lost and gained is true would need further proof. But kind of the whole point of Wilkinson's talk was that after a certain point, more money really doesn't seem to buy anything tangible for a society. We're quite a bit richer than most of Europe but they're killing us in nearly every one of those "health of society" metrics. Crime, poverty, suicide, incarceration rate, lifespan, and more.Ryan Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17164379024023137718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4501419294567207665.post-70472652663247928382012-05-20T12:31:03.792-04:002012-05-20T12:31:03.792-04:00The per capita spending data (US$ PPP) you wanted,...The per capita spending data (US$ PPP) you wanted, from the latest OECD factbook. (Data for 2009). Unfortunately probably distorted by different countries responses to the finacial crises. However the US convergance with Sweden has been a long term trend. <br /><br />Sweden: 20406<br />USA : 19266<br />France : 18866<br />Germany : 17263<br />Canada : 16655<br />Japan : 12570<br /><br />Also remember in the US data you are averaging wealthier states (New England) with poorer states (the South). In looking at Europe we are not averaging high funtioning areas with low functioning areas to the same degree (Germany with Greece, for example).<br /><br />My main point, is that whenever I see US income distribution compared with Eurpean welfare states, the European advantage at the low end, is a fraction of their deficency at the higher end (higher end consisting of over 50% of the population). I am interested in approaches where a dollar lost in the upper half is matched by a dollar gain in the lower half, what I see normally looks more like at least $3 to $4 loss for every 1$ gained.Lukenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4501419294567207665.post-87672665136798820102012-05-18T17:21:32.657-04:002012-05-18T17:21:32.657-04:00"America is significantly wealthier than a co..."America is significantly wealthier than a country like Sweden, so much so that our government spending per capita (PPP $) is only slightly below theirs..." I won't believe this without more evidence. Sweden's economy is like 48% government spending. <a href="http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2012/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=40&pr.y=9&sy=2011&ey=2011&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C122%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513%2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C686%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558%2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C716%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718%2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C646%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652%2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C578%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369%2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C869%2C436%2C746%2C136%2C926%2C343%2C466%2C158%2C112%2C439%2C111%2C916%2C298%2C664%2C927%2C826%2C846%2C542%2C299%2C967%2C582%2C443%2C474%2C917%2C754%2C544%2C698&s=PPPPC&grp=0&a=" rel="nofollow">PPP per capita GDP</a> here is about 48k, compared to 40k in Sweden. And how much of our social spending goes towards the world's most expensive healthcare, which is <a href="http://www.oecd.org/document/30/0,3746,en_2649_37407_12968734_1_1_1_37407,00.html" rel="nofollow">more than twice as costly</a> as Sweden's?<br /><br />"Sweden's poor are really not that much better off than ours..." Really? Here is a partial list of welfare state benefits in Sweden:<br /><br />1) Universal healthcare, free at point of access for the poor.<br />2) Child income (not just tax) credit.<br />3) Generous unemployment benefits.<br />4) Minimum income support.<br />5) Pension available at 61.<br />6) Housing allowance for the poor.<br />7) Cheap/free higher education.<br /><br /><a rel="nofollow">Being poor</a> in the US is <a href="http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/" rel="nofollow">awful</a>. In the developed world, it really doesn't get any worse.<br /><br />So yes, I say raise taxes (when the Fed has room to ease), bring down the rich, bring up the poor, and institute price controls on education and healthcare.Ryan Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17164379024023137718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4501419294567207665.post-5512034042115943432012-05-18T16:03:08.333-04:002012-05-18T16:03:08.333-04:00While wanting a more equal America, I would be hes...While wanting a more equal America, I would be hesitant to sacrifice America's advantages too quickly. America is significantly wealthier than a country like Sweden, so much so that our government spending per capita (PPP $) is only slightly below theirs, and ahead of countries like France and Germany. We are just able to this with lower tax rates (so yes, the Republican model kind of does work). With a shift in priorities, it is not unfeasible for America to enhance the welfare of the poorest 20% of the population beyond that of Sweden's poorest 20% without significantly increasing taxes. Sweden's poor are really not that much better off than ours, the cost of closing the gap might only be a couple of % of GDP.<br /><br />So my question is would it really be better to sacrifice the absolute welfare of the poorer members of our population for more equality?Lukenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4501419294567207665.post-88590159457194000802012-05-17T19:12:04.409-04:002012-05-17T19:12:04.409-04:00Background is surely a factor, but laziness also I...Background is surely a factor, but laziness also I reckon.Ryan Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17164379024023137718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4501419294567207665.post-61936718971687486292012-05-17T17:22:55.524-04:002012-05-17T17:22:55.524-04:00I think the operative factor here is their respect...I think the operative factor here is their respective backgrounds. Wilkinson is a social researcher and Hanauer is a venture crapitalist. That makes for more of a concern for the elitist classes as he comes off as a 'traitor'. The other important thing to consider here is Hanauer's 'deistic' remarks. Not at all controversial to me, as I have been arguing this for months. The reason why crapitalists ally themselves with the religulous right is for this very reason.It is the ONLY justification they have for their dubious acquisition of wealth and power. This is also why the new atheist movement bothers them and why they have tried to 'head it off' with a resurgence of reinjections of Ayn Rand philosophy and 'pseudo-atheism'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com